This week’s guest knows a thing or two about how to put a home together.
As the owner and principal designer of The Black Home, her style of “super-extra” minimalism has been featured in Essence, Blavity and Apartment Therapy.
Neffi Walker is on Episode 018 of The MICK Show to tell us about what makes good design and the importance of where you run your business, not just how you run it.
We also discuss how Neffi’s Harlem upbringing shaped the award-winning work she does today, and the importance of putting out the energy you want to receive in the world.
Says Neffi: “Never take no for an answer. There is always a way.”
You can follow Mick (@mick) and Neffi Walker (@neffiwalker) on Instagram.
New episodes of “The MICK Show” (presented in partnership with @maximmag) are released every Wednesday!
MICK: All right, welcome back to The Mick Show. I’m MICK, obviously, and I’m very excited for one of our very special guests here on season two, Neffi Walker. Hi.
Neffi Walker: Hi! How are you?
MICK: How are you?
Walker: I’m perfect.
MICK: So, let’s talk about all your awesome shit. You are such an amazing person when it comes to design, and creativity, and family, and business. What I enjoy explaining to people on this podcast is like we all have this work-life balance, we all have this multihyphenate kind of life, where we try to do a bunch of different things, whether that’s parenting and entrepreneurship, whether that’s people that have two or three different creative hustles going at the same time. I don’t think anybody lives in a polarity of just one thing. No matter what your bio says, no matter what your Wikipedia says, what the media says, and so I think you’re an amazing exemplification of that. What’s the main thing that you think has given you the boost for the level that you’re on right now?
Walker: It depends on what you mean by level, right? Because I still feel like I’m beginning, although I’ve been in the game for like 10 years. Level as far as parenting is concerned, I feel like a straight up OG, because I’ve been in that game for like 27 years, you know? So, and I think that all of it intertwines. My creativity comes from being a parent, and understanding how to balance that, and then also knowing that I’m still a woman, so I need to have time for my children, or else I’ll probably kill one of them, you know what I mean? And I need time to just go travel and be a fiancé. There are certain parts of me that I compartmentalize, and I just dip into all of them when I need to.
But I don’t understand work-life balance. It’s all intertwined.
MICK: Yeah. I think that’s almost like a fable, right? Work-life balance. I think it’s more like just… If you have… You’re blessed enough to have a good life and you’re blessed enough to have work, let’s just call that what it is right there, like we’re already ahead of 99% of the world, right?
Walker: Right.
MICK: What was your first experience with good design?
Walker: My first experience with good design?
MICK: Yeah, it could be any… The thing that just… You were like, “That shit makes me feel different, even because I’m seeing it.”
Walker: It came early, right? I grew up in Harlem during the crack era in the eighties, and my father [crosstalk 0:02:48.5]… Thank you. My father had this great idea to buy a brownstone, and the brownstone was really a rooming house for crackheads. He bought it, we moved in, and just peeling all of the façade, just summer, after summer, after summer, and seeing what was embedded behind all of the yuck was the first time I saw beauty in a wreckage.
MICK: Wow.
Walker: I mean, that came young. Needless to say, I was always on punishment, so every summer I was always doing something as far as shellacking something, or just in the yard building something, but that was the first time that I ever said, “Okay, this is something that… It turns me on. It makes me feel alive.” I didn’t know that that was gonna be a career path at that time but looking back now when I really have some time to think about it, I was just like, “Oh, okay. I see how this trajectory really landed.”
MICK: That’s cool. Did you have a grandma or like an aunt or somebody, that when you would go to their house they had just like some fly shit and you’d be like, “That’s cool.”
Walker: I feel like we all have a rich auntie that had no children and a real cute dog that she called her boo boo, right? And-
MICK: Nah, not booboo.
Walker: And boo boo, boo boo, boo boo. But building Black Home, which is a store that we’re opening up currently, that’s the feeling that it’s supposed to invoke. You’re walking inside of your rich auntie’s house and just having all of the things that you weren’t allowed to touch back in those days, but now you can actually purchase it. So, yeah.
MICK: I love that. And my mom didn’t really grasp design. I grew up in the middle of Ohio and this was like a straight up middle of America, Ohio house, in the eighties and nineties, but my grandparents, like they lived next door to us, and they lived on a different tier of us economically, culturally, socially, and so I’d walk in our house with Kmart towels and a sofa, the dog threw up on it, and I’d go to my grandma’s and be like, “Yeah, you can’t sit on that. You can’t sit on that. You can’t. You can’t. You can’t touch that.”
Walker: Did she have plastic on everything? Or no?
MICK: No. No. She didn’t have plastic on it. But there was just… There was a room I wasn’t allowed in. I remember that.
Walker: But that’s fine, because you had that duality.
MICK: The duality I think informed my entire life and my path. So much about everything that have happened in life that I’ve gained was from that duality, so I wonder how that applies to even design in that when you’re designing, and you’re creating, and you’re presenting, and you’re doing all of these things, are you mixing high and low? Can you walk into an ABC Home and then walk into Target and put all of those things in the same room and make it all work?
Walker: I do. But I wouldn’t walk into ABC Home because I feel like it’s too expensive. That’s just me. So, the funny thing is although I’ve designed for a lot of celebrities, I really love designing just for non-celebrities, like regular people. Because I feel like spending $10,000 on a couch is idiotic. You know, like we have children, we want to go on trips, we have tuition, we have food. There are other things to spend money on.
And part of the reason why I got into design is because my person at the time gifted me a $15,000 couch. And I was irate, like, “What is this? It just costs too much.” And then I tried to figure out, “Okay, why does this cost too much? Oh, it just costs too much because of the name.” It’s not that it was created in such a way that it dictates that amount. Okay, so what does it look like to deliver good pieces at an affordable price to my people? And that’s when the whole idea came about.
MICK: I love that.
Walker: It has to be high and low, but I don’t want it to be too, too high, and I don’t want it to be too, too low. Because fashion and style doesn’t equate to how much money you have. You know what I mean?
MICK: Right. I mean, I know a lot of people who have money that’s dream-worthy money for me, and they look crazy when they walk at the house.
Walker: Right. Yeah, no style.
MICK: And I’m not talking in some good… Not good crazy, either.
Walker: Right, right. They have like no style.
MICK: Like not eccentric, like just crazy. Yeah. Do you find as somebody who’s just really mastered design that great design creates a peace for you? How would you correlate peace and good design? How do those things work together for you?
Walker: I mean, they work hand in hand. With every client that I have, the purpose is for you to have a space that you can go into and it’s just your sanctuary. It has to be functionable, but it has to be something that makes you feel like you can escape from your day, and then you’re in your peace. If not, then what’s the point? It just makes no sense. This is the reason why I do what I do. It just goes hand in hand. Period.
Whether it’s a scent, there’s incense, or it’s a favorite call on a wall, or it’s some art that makes you feel alive, to have all that in your space is just… It’s exactly why design exists.
MICK: That’s cool. Would you classify yourself more minimalist by nature?
Walker: No, I’m super extra.
MICK: Super extra?
Walker: I told you I’m from Harlem.
MICK: I’m just imagining like you, standing next to like Dapper Dan, Cam’ron, Big L-
Walker: Yeah. Oh. Lamont. That was one of my best friends.
MICK: Really?
Walker: Yeah. Yeah. Lamont. And Dap lived three doors away from me growing up. Doug E. Fresh lived up the block. So, yeah, so-
MICK: You got all the stories.
Walker: Remember, I was always on punishment, so I was always on my stoop, so I saw everything happening because it was on my block. But yeah, just really, really Harlem. Exactly what you said. I can sit with them comfortably, you know? It’s just what it is. It’s in the DNA.
MICK: Let me ask you an aside question, just because… I mean, this is not on my list of questions, but I never get to ask this ever, because you may be one of the only people I’ve ever met that actually not just knew Big L, but was like friends with him. If his life didn’t tragically end when it did, how big do you think he could have been? Because he was just on such the cusp of Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas level to me.
Walker: Yeah.
MICK: Do you think he could have transcended to that?
Walker: I think so. I feel like for me, because we went to school together, and I knew him from a personal space, rapping at the time, it was just like, “Oh, you know, he’s a rapper. This is pretty cool.” It wasn’t until he actually died that I paid attention to how revered he was, like everywhere. You know, where I was just like, “Oh, okay. I see exactly what’s happening.” I also went to school with Bigs.
MICK: Oh, wow. Okay.
Walker: Yeah, so again, coming from that space, and being like the little sister to everybody, and just watching them, but I totally feel like Lamont… Well, Big L, would have just been colossal, because he had lyrics all day. For no reason. And it was so easy for him, you know? Yeah. Yeah. His life was cut too short.
MICK: When you’re creating, and designing, and your brain is just exploding with the things you want to give to your clients, what are you listening to? Are you listening to music while your brain is in that space and you’re conceptualizing?
Walker: I’m always listening to music. Every second of the day. Downstairs, right before I came up here, we were listening to Stevie Wonder on a record player. It depends on my mood, like I’ll listen to trap really quickly. Gospel if I feel like I did something wrong that day, just to like cleanse my spirit. And I love a lot of R&B. I listen to a lot of music that people really do not think that I would know, only because of my kids, so I know all the rap songs, I know all the trap, I know all the dances. I do it in my lonesome, but yeah. I’m here for all of it.
MICK: That’s hilarious. Do you have a favorite nineties hip hop album?
Walker: I would say anything Jodeci.
MICK: Ooh. Yeah.
Walker: Anything Jodeci.
MICK: Love that.
Walker: Yeah.
MICK: When they did the remix with Wu-Tang, I was like… The Freek'n You remix.
Walker: Oh, yeah.
MICK: Yeah. That was amazing.
Walker: Hot. I loved it.
MICK: So, okay. Harlem born and raised. Now you’re opening an amazing, amazing store in Jersey. Shout out to Jersey.
Walker: In Newark.
MICK: In Newark. I just feel like what you do inspires a lot of people, right? Whether it’s inspiring them to live their lives better, because they have beautiful, good design things, or inspiring people to see that they could literally create these brands, and these stores, and do it, and they don’t have to go do it for somebody else. They could do it for themselves. How much inspiration goes into your thought process of like how you’re doing this?
Walker: So, that was the point. I did research for three years. Before I thought about Newark, I wanted to do this in Baltimore, because I felt like Baltimore was a Black rich, enriched city. It was untapped. And I felt like my services would be welcomed there with the transition of gentrification, right? Due to co-parenting, I could not go to Baltimore. Freddie Gray was an issue at the time. So, then I had a conversation with the powers that be here in Newark and explained exactly what I was trying to do. I could have did this easily in Harlem. This would have been a multimillion dollar business in SoHo. But I felt like Newark does not have anything. There’s no place here where you can sit down and drink a latte and use your laptop. It’s that barren. A food desert, as well. And it’s not like there aren’t properties here where people could really come in and embed themselves, but it’s just that Newark has a bad rap PR wise, that it’s not even an option. Right?
So, this store is 2,000 square feet, and it’s just straight up 2,000 square feet of goodness. There’s a café inside of it. You know?
MICK: Nice.
Walker: I mean, you can buy sofas, to candles, whatever it is that you want, and I wanted it to be like a destination, because New Yorkers are like, “Oh, Newark. Okay, I’ll make the pilgrimage over.” No, girl. It’s only 15 minutes away. Relax. I need them to get into the mix that there are other things cool and popping outside of New York, and I just feel like if I don’t integrate myself and root into a space pre-gentrification, then it’s my fault if I’m not a part of that. If the culture gets lost during that time, you know what I mean?
So, with that being said, I was able to have my store. I got my homegirl to get the store right next to me. I have another girlfriend who now has a store around the corner. And I feel like by the time my five-year lease is up, I’ll have the whole hood. It’ll be like a Bed-Stuy. How Bed-Stuy just continues to grow, how Harlem has changed. I don’t know if I am happy with it, so I kind of... I want to make a little difference.
MICK: I like that. And to do it in the middle of a pandemic with everything going the way it is, and probably… I would assume it’s significantly harder to open a brick and mortar retail establishment when people aren’t supposed to do anything.
Walker: Yeah. I mean, the gag was I signed my lease February, before-
MICK: Oh, wow.
Walker: Right. Before COVID was COVID. And then, you know, when COVID came, we were like, “Oh, okay. This will be a good three months. Yeah, everything will be fine.” No, it took about a year for them to relinquish the store over to me. So, it’s definitely been not the easiest all the way across the board. You know, with city hall being closed, and all of that, but we’re here now.
MICK: If somebody came up to you right now and they were just like, “Neffi, I just can’t believe you were able to follow your dreams and create this,” what are the three things you would tell a 22-year-old version of you that’s in 2021 right now? Is that what year it is? I don’t even know what year it is anymore.
Walker: Yes. Thank God, it’s 2021. I would definitely say fuck what anybody else has to say about what you want to do with your life. That’s first and foremost. Don’t listen to it at all. Definitely don’t take no for an answer. There is no no. I really go by there is no no, there’s always a way. If someone gives me a no, okay, great, so who am I gonna find that’s gonna give me this yes? Because I’m determined to get exactly what I want. You know, within reason.
MICK: I strongly believe in that too. I refuse to take no. I mean, my kid better take no. When I say no, no. Daddy says no. But like daddy doesn’t take no. I don’t do that no.
Walker: Right, right. And I’ve taught my kids to be the same way, so I see them going through hurdles without really feeling the disappointment, because at the end of the road, they feel like, “Okay, well, I might have this little bump now, but I’m gonna get what I want at the end of the day.” Making sure that you’re empathetic and paying attention to people’s feelings while you’re moving through life is really important, because karma is really real, and you want to be as nice as possible. You know, as giving as possible, because the more giving you are, the more the universe gives back to you. Those are mottos that I live by. And I feel like that’s the reason why I’m able to move through so energetically. Period.
MICK: I love that. Who are some creatives in other industries that inspire you?
Walker: I have to give up to my friend Bigs, again. I think that he operates in the same vein, where he comes up with an idea, he puts all of his heart and soul into that idea, and it just works. It just always just works. So, I think that he’s amazing. Although Kanye is on a whole nother planet sometimes, I do feel like his creative ethos make him kind of brilliant. He’s really given us a body of work that cannot be denied, so-
MICK: Correct.
Walker: So, I think across all kinds of different spectrums, so I think that that is just like fucking awesome. Who else would I say I love so much? Jenna Lyons. Do you know who that is?
MICK: Yeah, of course.
Walker: I stan Jenna Lyons. I just love her. She’s-
MICK: Girl, I’m gonna tell you. Before you even tell me this, so I use… I live in Clinton Hill now. I live on St. James, like 10 houses down from where Biggie grew up, but I used to live in Park Slope, and so she used to live in Park Slope somewhere between 6th and 7th on… I forget the name of her street, but she doesn’t live there anymore. This was like a decade ago. But her house used to get covered from a décor perspective in every magazine, every blog. This is when blogs were hot. And it was the most beautiful brownstone I had ever seen. I had just moved to New York and my apartment looked nothing like that. And I was just like, “What the fuck?” There was two homes that inspired me to want to one day live in a brownstone and really have dope shit in my home. And it was her home, and it was also, and I know he moved to Cali years later, but like Mike D from the Beastie Boys and his wife used to live in maybe like Cobble Hill, and they had a sick brownstone. And there was a New York Times article on it from a decade ago.
Both of those homes, I would remember just looking at those things and being so inspired creatively, because I was like, “Wait, people’s homes can make you feel like that?” I mean, we’re talking about like my grandma had nice things, where like the… But it didn’t feel like that. When I saw both of those homes, I was just like… I think if I ever had to work from home, and parent, just like the feeling you would get in a home that was thought out, and open, and beautiful like that, I was like… I literally was like, “I could do anything if I lived in a place like that.”
Walker: Right.
MICK: And I felt like the world opened up to me completely if I had that sort of environment.
Walker: Right. Very well appointed. You know, I was watching her show the other day and it was so interesting to me, because when she talks about herself, she talks about herself in a way when she wasn’t sure about certain things. And I’m like, “But she’s Jenna fucking Lyons, like what? You are incredible.” Her brain is just masterful. I love Jenna Lyons. She’s amazing.
MICK: Those are great choices. I like that. I don’t… I mean, yeah. To go from Bigs to Jenna Lyons in 30 seconds or less… I love the range. And I love that. That’s cool. Is there anything else you’d love to tell this fascinating audience we have about your beautiful career, and store, and family? Obviously, we’re gonna link to all your socials, and your websites, and all of that stuff, so people can get to you. And what you’re doing, especially right now with the whole world being so crazy, you’re bringing just kindness, and beauty, and just like integrity back to all this shit. It’s so super cool.
Walker: I appreciate that.
MICK: So, we’re grateful to have you here.
Walker: Thank you. I really appreciate that. I mean, again, I feel like… Well, millennials, and just us at our age, we spend a lot of-
MICK: Our advanced age.
Walker: You know, we’ve spent a lot of money on sneakers, and hair, and clothing, which is cool, but I feel like we’re at a space now where people are really taking stock in real estate and in trying to figure out exactly what… It feels like a big boy or big girl purchase, you know what I mean? And like what do you do with that? Exactly how does that manifest? You know, so I don’t know, I really, honestly love what I do, and I’m really excited about The Black Home store, because it makes me feel like little pieces of me are leaving and going to go live in other people’s spaces.
MICK: You get to be everyone’s auntie.
Walker: Yeah, like I’m big auntie, so I take that. I’m here for that. I’m auntie with the good advice.
MICK: I like it. With the best glasses collection. The people can’t see the glasses that I’m seeing, but you know, see it on the Gram. The glasses collection is official.
Walker: Yeah. Thank you.
MICK: Cool. Neffi, thank you so much for finding time today. I know you got a lot going on with the store. We thank you so much and we will make sure everybody checks out your store.
Walker: Thank you.
MICK: All right. We’ll see you guys back here next week for another episode of The MICK Show.
Walker: Bye!
MICK: That was it for another episode of The MICK Show. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please rate and subscribe to The MICK Show wherever you like to listen and make sure to follow on Instagram @Mick and on Twitter @iamMICK. Let me know who you want to hear on a future episode, and we will see you back here next week.
The MICK Show is presented in partnership with Maxim. The show is produced by Lantigua Williams & Co. Cedric Wilson is our producer and mixed this episode. Manuela Bedoya is our social media editor.