What can’t Estelle do?
Musically, she can create classics in any genre. Hip-hop, soul, reggae, EDM.
On the screen, she stars in movies and voices legendary cartoon characters.
As a personality, she hosts a super successful daily show on Apple Music.
Now she’s on Episode 016 of The MICK Show to tell us how she does it all, and here’s a clue: focus.
“Get very clear about who you are and what you are here to do,” says Estelle.
We also discuss how the unique jobs and opportunities in Estelle’s past, while seemingly nonsensical, all played a very important role in crafting her current path.
You can follow Mick (@mick) and Estelle (@estelledarlings) on Instagram.
New episodes of “The MICK Show” (presented in partnership with @maximmag) are released every Wednesday!
MICK: Welcome back. This is The MICK Show. We are deep into season two, or we might not even be deep into season two. I have no idea where this episode is gonna go in season two, but it’s gonna be in season two and I’m very excited to have today’s guest. Man, new year, new energy, and I’ve known you for a long time, Estelle. We’re so happy to have you here.
Estelle: Thank you.
MICK: I like to interview people I’ve seen on multiple continents and you fit into that category, so that’s kind of where I’m trying to make season two. Just people I know globally. But I don’t know if you count, because you were actually born on the other continent that I saw you on, but like you know-
Estelle: This is true. This is true.
MICK: It’s true.
Estelle: We’ve been moving around the world and I, I, I. It’s wild. It’s pretty wild when you think about it. It’s crazy.
MICK: I’m so happy to have you here, because you are, as we were talking before we started recording, really a true definition of a multi-hyphenate. You do so many things well-
Estelle: Thank you.
MICK: And you can see the little connective tissue between all the things you do, but they’re all different, whether it’s like film and TV, whether it’s voiceover work, whether it’s now being a personality with Apple, which I want to talk about, which I really think is interesting.
Estelle: For sure.
MICK: When you started your career, did you foresee yourself branching in different avenues? Or were you singularly music focused?
Estelle: No. I was not music focused. I’ve always done music. It’s almost like I breathe, I do music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can do other things, though. Right? So, I started off and I knew I could rap, so I started rapping. That was always my thing, but while I was rapping, I was… My mom was always like, “Have a backup. Because if the music don’t go one way, it’s gonna be… You’re gonna be out here.” So, she made sure I went to college, and college for us is high school for you, so in college high school I studied media, and photography, and journalism, so I used that I went and worked backstage. I used to work at a production company as a runner, go and get their coffee and tea, and also essentially an intern, right? But I was paid, thank God, because my mom was about like, “Hey, hey. Hey, hey, go and do some. Hey, I can’t pay for the things, the style you want. You’re gonna be rich one day, but you’re not right now. Go do some things.”
MICK: I love that.
Estelle: So, I had that job and I also had a job in a record shop, so I was feeling my music side of it, my music research side of it, but also learning how to make music videos, and after that I started working as a journalist for a website called Darker Than Blue.
MICK: Okay.
Estelle: Called Darker Than Blue. And I was the gig’s editor, like you couldn’t plan my life out better. I was the gigs editor, so I’d go to the clubs. I’d take artists to the clubs. But I’d also be performing at the clubs, so I was like, “Please, one of y’all discover me.”
MICK: Oh, that’s amazing.
Estelle: Come in next week. Come in tomorrow and do this interview with us.
MICK: Let me ask you. Now that you’re interviewing people on your show, which is on Apple Music right now. Everybody should go check that out. Have you interviewed anybody where you’ve just been, like as an artist, you could kind of like reverse the chairs and be like, “What the fuck? Did you not hear me?” Because you’re both now, right? I guess according to your story, I guess you were both the whole time, because you did journalism at the beginning.
Estelle: Sure. But it’s been a couple difficult ones where I have to pull wood of water per se, like water out of wood per se. Is that the quote? Water out of a stone. But to the extent of like they were just used to doing interviews in a certain way and I’m like, “So, what did you eat for breakfast and how you feeling today? And how’s your spirit? And what’s going on in your soul? And talk to me. And like, oh my goodness…” And I’m that kind of interviewer, because I just find that people hate talking about their records. Like artists genuinely don’t like it. They want to tell you everything but their records.
After they’ve given you them two minutes of [inaudible 0:03:52.7], it means this, talk to them about something else. And that’s what I’ve been doing but some artists are used to the traditional way of like, hey, and I went in with so-and-so, and this is what I have to say. You know? And so, one or two of them have been a little difficult, but you know, I pull water out of stones.
MICK: As an artist, do you like hearing your music when you’re out? Because I’ve found as a DJ when artists are new and they’re in my environment, they’re very excited to hear their shit, because they’re just like they’ve never heard their shit out and they’re just feeling themselves and they’re like that new, hot thing. But then I feel like at the same time, I’ve played a lot of parties where really established artists have been there, and I… I mean, they’ve been right in front of me and I played their song, and they don’t even flinch. Like it’s like they don’t even know that it’s on. It’s almost like a tone deaf and I just wonder how much of that is subconscious.
Estelle: I may be at that point now where I’m just like… You know what? If I sit here and I shit on it, or I shit on the experience, that’s bad energy towards some really good work. Before, I used to be like, “Oh my goodness. Turn it off.” All the reactions. And then it was just like, “Well, girl, is the song trash or is it good? They’re playing it because it’s good. Stop.”
MICK: Was this like for American Boy would come on the minute you’d walk into a club?
Estelle: American Boy is one of the records. Then it’s like Break My Heart, depending on where you go, and then it’s like Thank You, depending on where you go. Conqueror if I’m sitting in a restaurant every time.
MICK: The chef pulling out like the Spotify, or excuse me, the Apple. The Apple Music.
Estelle: Listen. They will go to Estelle Radio on Apple Music and play… It will be like 12 of my records. Records I don’t even know the words to playing, like it’s wild, and I’m just here like, “Well, I just… I didn’t even do my hair today, but here we are. I’m just gonna eat this food and just… Hi.”
MICK: So, you’re on the other side of the apex with an American Boy, which, where it’s just like past cringey when you hear it in public and you’re just grateful for the amazing artistry that it created for you.
Estelle: Yeah.
MICK: Because I feel like, you know-
Estelle: It’s good. I’m grateful for it. You pray for records like that as an artist. I don’t know any artist who doesn’t pray for a forever record. You know, like who doesn’t pray for records that like people will hear beyond the minute they’re promoting it. And you’re like, “No, that’s my joint, though. I still love that record.” And I have at least two of them. At least.
MICK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Estelle: Don’t get me started with One Love, and Freak, and that side of the world of records. It’s like I have a few and it’s like I am only grateful. You know, I’m thankful. I’m doing my job and doing what I came here to do. You know?
MICK: I feel like when artists start like… You want to make music that, even as a DJ, you don’t… You want to make music, you want to play music that you’d never play at a wedding. And then when you become an adult and you become established, you know, that’s like the pinnacle. If you have a song that could actually get played at a wedding, then you’re just… That means you’re good. That means like-
Estelle: You’re a lifestyle now. [Crosstalk 0:06:49.4]
MICK: Yeah. You’re good. That means you figured this shit out. So, you’ve always also to me really smoothly navigated through different genres of music with R&B being like the base, but you know, you were rapping from the beginning, and you’ve always dipped into the reggae stuff. You were an England import early, way before Drake made British music cool in America and everything, and so, I just… Was that growing up in London? You grew up in London or did you grow up outside of London?
Estelle: No, I grew up in London, like West London, like in the middle. Like 10 minutes from central, like London, London. So, when people do that whole London stuff, I’m just like, “What part, Crendon? Outside? Just on the corners?” Like, nah, chill out, relax. I know exactly where that is. It’s like petty. It’s petty disrespect to me when you talk about you’re from London, London, but you go to like zone 7. That’s not even a zone. Zone 6, it stops at like zone 6, and then after that you’re just out there. We don’t know who you are.
MICK: Zone 7’s like the burbs? It’s like the suburbs?
Estelle: It’s like Jersey to New York.
MICK: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It’s not the same.
Estelle: Like you’re not from New York, though. It’s like Illinois to Chicago, you know?
MICK: Yeah. If you have to pay a toll, you’re not from New York, right?
Estelle: Pretty much. There’s a lot of people do that, but then there’s a lot of people that are truly from London, and it is beautiful seeing all the migration and all the people though. I can’t front. I like it. It’s a good time.
MICK: What’s the first record you remember getting? What’s the first record you bought?
Estelle: Oh. It was De La Soul’s 3 Is The Magic Number.
MICK: Wow.
Estelle: I paid 50p for it at my school fair. I was like 12 or something like that. So, it makes it even wilder that I did a record with them like a few years ago.
MICK: Yeah. On Anonymous Nobody.
Estelle: My whole soul was just boom, like I was just looking at them like… Just staring at them and looking at them, but also trying to be myself, but also like, “I’m in a field with De La Soul filming a video for a song I wrote to a Pete Rock beat.”
MICK: Yeah. To the Pete Rock beat. Weren’t you riding around in a car? I’m trying to remember that video.
Estelle: Yeah. I was-
MICK: Yeah, yeah. It was dope.
Estelle: I was the young girl that both of them had tried to get at when they were young and then we were grownups, and I was marrying one of them. It was just wild.
MICK: That’s funny. You know, my first ever public gig in my life was in ’97. I grew up in Cleveland and it was I opened for them in ’97. And I sucked. It was like I had a college radio show, so I had all the underground credibility, so they booked me, the venue booked me to open. But I never did anything outside of dorm room parties, and so I was just like now I’m on this stage-
Estelle: Oh, no.
MICK: And this is like when Stakes Is High just dropped, and it was just like it was… I’m just like it was good, it was fine, like it wasn’t bad, but it just… It wasn’t my level of DJing now, but I was just so nervous. I just found all the pictures and it’s just crazy. I was so wide eyed, and I remember Mase gave me his number and he was just like, “You did a good job.” He handed me his piece of paper back then with a phone number, and I was too scared to call him for like four years, and I called that dude when I fucking graduated college like four years later. And of course, the number was like… It was probably like a beeper. That was when shit became real for me, when I got to be on that stage, and I was like… and whenever I see those guys now, I always tell them the same story, like nobody gives a fuck.
Estelle: Nah, they care. And that’s the-
MICK: No, no. They’re such great guys.
Estelle: Yeah. Incredible dudes and just sweethearts, like I love them all. They’re like my brothers. They’re very good people. And it’s wild, I’ve known Mase for the longest. When I was coming up in the U.K., I had met him because we were working with my producer friend, Joe Buhdha, and he would stay up with Joe Buhdha whenever I would be up there working, and he would DJ sometimes, and it was just like we have this other bond, and so he’s my big brother. Like, “Anybody, you know, they don’t even know how broke they are, how far back you go when you was just rapping.” And I’m just like, “Yeah, I know Mase.”
MICK: He’s so crazy. Vinny Merlot. Vinny Merlot. He’s a great dude. All right, let me ask you this. What do you fear?
Estelle: Nothing.
MICK: Nothing?
Estelle: Nothing. So, I believe that there’s fear and there’s love, and if I say that I fear anything, that just adds to that energy, right? So, whenever I catch myself in the space like… apprehension, I do it. I squash the idea and the energy that it’s undoable, or it’s unfeelable, or whatever, so I just move. And so, I keep putting myself in the space of love. And that’s my self love to me is like, yo, focusing my energy towards love is my self love, and that just… It just builds on that.
So, I don’t fear anything. I don’t. I just keep-
MICK: Wow.
Estelle: And it’s taken me some time and I’m still working through it, but I just keep living on the side of love, but the everyday work is something feels like it’s threatening, something feels scary, I’m not scared of that. What’s the breakdown? Break it down to zero and here’s what I’m gonna do is combat that with love, instead.
MICK: Was there ever a point in your career where you felt like maybe it’s done? When you had to figure out something else?
Estelle: For two seconds, yes. When I was in London and I sat on my balcony and I could barely afford my mortgage in my first house I bought. And you know, and for me-
MICK: What year was this?
Estelle: 2004-2005. So, after I released my very first album in the U.K., we do our thing. No, 2005 was good, we put the three records out, the singles, and they were like all change. People want you to change your style, change your energy, and go work with these producers that had nothing to do with the success of my first album. And I was just like, “No, thank you. I’m good. Let me make the records the way I made them before.” You know, because what’s broke, you don’t fix, you just elevate. And I said, “Well, okay, guys. Guys.”
MICK: Shine it up a little bit.
Estelle: Just buff it. Buff it down a touch. You know, and I said, “You know who’s gonna help me buff this down? John Legend.” And they legit said to me, and this is the album that became Shine, with American Boy and everything else. They said to me, “Who is John Legend?” That year, John had won like 500 Grammys. His album went like gold first week out in the U.K. I had toured with him extensively. They had given me money to tour with him. And they legit said in the A&R meeting, “Who is John Legend?” And I wanted to throw myself through a wall.
MICK: They probably… They’d never been to Springfield, Ohio. Springfield, Ohio.
Estelle: Right. You’re silly. You’re so silly. It was just wild. But look, out of that, and it was a three month period in between that where I was recording my album myself. I went back to basics with it. I was like, “Well, let me go and record.” Pay my money. [inaudible 0:13:28.6] Build my relationships. Do what I gotta do. There’s a three month period where I couldn’t travel, because I had no money, because I hadn’t been doing any gigs, and I was just sitting on my balcony like, Oh, shit. This might be it. I don’t know if I was supposed to do this.”
Same thing, like I remember at that point, that was the beginning of the fear versus love for me. It was like, “Well, what do you love to do? I love this. Well, where do you want to see it go? I want to win my Grammys.” And I decided I was gonna do it. And then I just did it.
MICK: I love it. So, for people who are starting out, whether it’s an artist, it could be somebody in fashion, it can be an entrepreneur, it could be anybody, especially after this last year where everybody is starting all sorts of amazing things because of the quarantine. Betting on yourself is truly the best gift you can give yourself, huh?
Estelle: 100%. Get very clear about who you are, what you’re here to do, and literally do it every day. There’s no four ways on it. There’s no four ways. And doing it every day, it’s up to you what that looks like. It’s not somebody’s mandated version of events. It’s what it looks like. There’s some days, and now, and there’s days before the quarantine where I would just be like, “I’m gonna smoke something and I’m gonna lay out, because my brain can’t function, and my brain needs a rest, and my body is physically tired. I just got off of doing a marathon tour here or there. I was out there with a schedule.” So, when I come home, I was hard on myself trying to push and I was like, “You know what? I’m gonna take a day off. I’m gonna smoke and I’m gonna lay out.”
And that day turned to like three, and then I got back to work. You know? But in the interims of laying down, I was able to listen to music, and put the music on, and I got inspired, and then when I got back up to write, boom, the records come out. You know, so whatever it looks like to you is the point.
MICK: So, you said a magic word. You said records. It’s January of 2021. Do you think at some point before there’s another ball drop in Times Square that nobody could attend, that we’ll hear any new music from you? At some point in the next 12 months?
Estelle: Yeah. For sure. I think I’m done on my album. We started recording it quarantine style in… Actually, started recording it in 2012. We came back to it-
MICK: Serious?
Estelle: This is serious. We came back to it in 2017 and then back to it again in 2019. So, I’ve been working on this one for a minute. Again, as I flow, I’m not pressing it or pushing it for nobody, but it’s gonna be out this year because I think we need some joy. We need some joy. And I have some-
MICK: Yeah. This is the year of joy.
Estelle: You know? I have some happy records.
MICK: Nice. We need that. How did the Apple Music show come about?
Estelle: Oh, my goodness. So, again, just in knowing what you love and what you want to do, right? I had… After I did Lovers Rock, my friends had decided to tell me that they really came out, like bit by bit, like, “Yo, you do so many genres so well. You need a radio show. Because your playlists be hitting.” And I was just like…
And then my team was like, “Let’s go and see if we can’t at least do a playlist show with Apple.” Right? And I was just like, “Sure.” We could do reggae music. I could play all my reggae, and I could like fake DJ, you know, [inaudible 0:16:42.3] them.” And they were like, “Yeah, cool, cool.” They went to Apple and they pitched the idea of me doing that one. You know, the artist playlist shows, and then Apple came back and said, “She a little bigger than that. Does she want to do…” You know, not bigger, but, “She a little bit more expansive. Does she want to do a radio show? Like a radio host? Like five days a week?” And I was like, “You know, I have time.”
I had just started to kind of really get a grip on… I’m gonna say a grip on balance in my life. And I realized how much free time I actually had when I wasn’t trying to do 50 other things I don’t need to do, right? So, I was like, “You know what? I actually have the time to do it. The mental capacity. I do these all day. Sure.” It’s been a learning process. My team are great. They make me look good.
MICK: I love that.
Estelle: It’s been a blessing right now. I can’t even front. It’s something to stay engaged with and something to stay up about, especially on the days where it’s like I said, the in between days, where you’re just like, “I cannot…” Like the idea that there are fans, or darlings, I want to say, who follow me and people who look at what I do as far as just like myself and Bereola, one of my cohosts, someone I do Love on a Wednesday with, they look at us every day. Every week we used to go in there and just talk about positivity, and fear, and love, and how to reapproach life from a different standpoint. Just another point of view, right? Spiritual. A bit more… Just another alternative to how you fuck up your love life and things like that.
And just yourself, you know? Just a different way. We would go in there and do that live, and the fact that like I have that in a global format now, and it’s supported by music, which is my core, there’s a whole period of my life that I wish I had been like, “Just give me the vinyl,” to my stepdad, right? He used to be into sound and that was his whole thing. He used to play. Him and his friend had… You know, like Lovers Rock on Small Axe Anthology, those are my parents. That was my family. I grew up in that specific space. That was me, on the stairs, looking down, like watching the adults party. Stringing out the decks, pulling the vinyl out of the back of the van. They had like a little red van with all the speakers that they built from scratch in the back, or they had rejigged in the back.
So, these men were like electricians, removals guys, production engineers, and that was my whole life growing up. They had all the vinyl. They had all the stuff. And I was like… I wish I’d have just been like, “Save them for me.” But I understand being an adult, moving house, and wanting to get rid of shit too.
MICK: Yeah.
Estelle: You know, I feel it.
MICK: Yeah. Just, I mean, I try to give my kid everything, but at some point he’s gonna be like, “Too fucking much, dad. Too fucking much.” I love talking music stuff with people who just love music, and this is like you just love music, and it’s just so… If people could see your smile when you talk about music, it’s just like a very captivating thing. What’s the one thing you would like to tell your 2000 self?
Estelle: Oh. I would say, “Girl, go for it. All the things. Wear the belly top. Play all the music loudly. Sing it at the top of your lungs. Practice at the top of your lungs loudly. It’s fine. You’ll figure out where your range sits.” I did a lot in 2000. I was all over the world, like with my [inaudible 0:20:10.6], or just on my own, when I was just like, “Now I’m going to New York,” when I’m going. And my friends would look at me like, “Well, why?” Don’t worry. It’s gonna make sense. Don’t worry. I’m just gonna go. And you know, we would connect.
I remember where I was on 9/11. I was actually in Brooklyn. I had come to New York the day before.
MICK: Wow.
Estelle: And then it happened, and then we ended up staying in Brooklyn the whole time. So, I did a lot. It would be more on a personal side, like, “Go for it. Date the guy. Wear the belly top. Wear your clothes. Be happy. Don’t worry about perceptions and what people are gonna think of you. It’s beautiful either way. You’re gonna be fine and no one will remember. Just live. Don’t be so career minded that you forget that you’re a woman, and a young girl, and you should live and do things.” You know?
MICK: Yeah. You wake up an old person like me, like, “What the fuck did I do with my life?”
Estelle: Never! You’re living an amazing life. You have-
MICK: I have no idea. I wake up every day. Also, I do realize I forgot to ask you, you have some TV and film stuff coming out this year. Could we talk about that really quick?
Estelle: Well, I did some stuff last year for a couple Netflix shows, and like we’ve had the last year and we’ve utilized everything with Steven Universe, to like… You know, for the side of social justice, and shoutout to Cartoon Network-
MICK: That’s amazing.
Estelle: To Rebecca Sugar for leading on our team with that, so anyone who watches or pays attention to Steven Universe, we love you and thanks for supporting us. And also, I was in a film with Nia Long, one of my childhood heroes and now one of my friends, which is wild.
MICK: She was one of my childhood heroes in a very different way.
Estelle: I’m sure. All my guy friends are saying that.
MICK: Just to be very fucking clear.
Estelle: I know. I’m just like, “I’m not telling her nothing.”
MICK: Don’t tell her that.
Estelle: I’m not telling her nothing. But like, it’s that kind of energy. But she’s very, very cool, and she’s been sort of a mentor, and just her kindness even in reaching out directly and being like, “Come be in this film with me. It’s a little role but come be in it.” You know? Where a lot of actors and actresses are known, they really… You know, they’ll play the game, but they don’t really… And then they look at you wild, like you’re a threat, and I’m like, “First of all, you been here for 20 years, bro. I just came. Relax. Your shit is solidified. You know, we don’t have to be friends, but I just wanted to respect you.”
But she was very much like, “Yeah, that’s cool.” We’d met when I first moved to New York too, so that was another part where… And we’re both half West Indian, and you know, and so that was another bond of like, “Girl, what we doing today? Curry chicken? What’s going on?” She’s real human beyond it, you know? That was just beautiful and just… It’s been a lovely time.
And we’re working on… I started my production company for real, EST 980 Productions, and we’ve been working on shows, and pitching, and getting it out there, and so things are coming up this year. I’m excited. I had the chance to focus.
MICK: Focus? Man. Focus is the thing. I’m so glad you made it through the whole 2020 happy, healthy, progressive, positive, you know, rich as fuck.
Estelle: Word! You too. It’s gonna be on this year, like look, and claiming it for continual, for legacy, for future, because look, we ain’t out here to struggle. It’s been a hard year and I think we just gotta [crosstalk 0:23:24.9].
MICK: I know this is gonna be the best year of my life. I literally know that. 2020, honestly, for me, it looked great on the Gram. Personally, it was bad in a multitude of ways that I can’t even legally talk about. But, like you know, it looked good on the little squares. But like 2021, though, I know this. I already know. Just gonna be. When 2022 comes, I’m gonna look back at 2021 and be like, “Man-“
Estelle: No doubt. [Crosstalk 0:23:50.1]
MICK: Because I don’t care. I-
Estelle: Like if we didn’t go through and if you didn’t go through 2020, and 2019, and all the things, right? These years wouldn’t look so beautiful. It wouldn’t be so shiny, so bright, like the light when you look up after looking at the ground, and if the ground is dark for the longest, when you look up at the sky, doesn’t it seem so bright, and blue, and light, no matter what shade it is? No matter whether it’s grey today, or whether the sun’s not shining and it’s a bit, “Eh.” The light is still so bright, like you need the balance. You need for every plus, there’s a minus. Every minus, there’s a plus. You know, you need your balance. And to me, that’s what we should all be worried or focusing on is like noticing the balance, noticing the pluses, and we’re doing that this year. This is it. That’s why we claim it and that’s why I’m happy, and I’m excited that we’re both here. We made it!
MICK: That’s awesome. We made it.
Estelle: Watch out. Be alive. We made it.
MICK: We made it. Thank you so much, Estelle. Make sure you guys tune into her show on Apple Music. Her real music is coming out at some point this year and all the acting stuff she just talked about that I don’t even remember what she said, but it’s something about Nia Long. My head went back to some like Ebony Magazine from ’94, like I was zoned out. I’m really sorry. But I know you said something important, so you know, make sure you listen to it and watch it and shit, and yeah, thank you so much, and good luck with everything this year, and we’ll be back next week on another episode of The MICK Show.
That was it for another episode of The MICK Show. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please rate and subscribe to The MICK Show wherever you like to listen and make sure to follow on Instagram @Mick and on Twitter @iamMICK. Let me know who you want to hear on a future episode, and we will see you back here next week.
The MICK Show is presented in partnership with Maxim. The show is produced by Lantigua Williams & Co. Juleyka-Lantigua Williams is our editor. Cedric Wilson is our producer and mixed this episode. Manuela Bedoya is our social media editor.
CITATION:
Batyske, Mick, host. “Conqueror Of The Universe: Estelle.”” The MICK Show, Lantigua Williams & Co., February 17, 2021. https://mick.co/.